Talk:Jewish views on Jesus

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Requested move 16 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerium (talk) 18:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Judaism's view of Jesus → Jewish views on Jesus – Page was moved from Jewish view of Jesus a long time ago, but the current title seems odd. My proposal seems to be in line with other "Jewish views on..." articles (e.g. Jewish views on homosexuality, Jewish views on slavery, Jewish views on religious pluralism). Thoughts? GnocchiFan (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It does seem more natural. Walrasiad (talk) 16:22, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
support per nom—blindlynx 16:41, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination, Walrasiad and blindlynx. Taking into account WP:CONSISTENT, the header form "Jewish views on..." appears to be the commonly used one. The only other header to use "Judaism's view of..." seems to be the analogous Judaism's view of Muhammad. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:51, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't notice that article - do you think it should be included in this move discussion? GnocchiFan (talk) 18:06, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since a few users have already voted here, perhaps a separate RM for Judaism's view of Muhammad → Jewish views on Muhammad could be considered, with a note at each RM, pointing to the other one. It should be also noted, with regard to the subsequently-proposed alternative header Jesus in Judaism, that Muhammad in Judaism is a redirect to Judaism's view of Muhammad —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:29, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i support this move too if you want to group them—blindlynx 20:12, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Maybe Jesus in Judaism, to match Jesus in Christianity, Jesus in Islam, Jesus in Manichaeism, and Jesus in Mandaeism instead? Orchastrattor (talk) 18:02, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

~~I would also support this as preferable; apologies for not searching further before making this move discussion. GnocchiFan (talk) 18:06, 16 December 2023 (UTC)~~[reply]

I would likewise support the proposed alternative which also conforms to WP:CONSISTENT. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:29, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The key difference between all those and Jewish views on Jesus is that Jesus isn't a part of Judaism in the way they are in all of those other religions. In other words Jesus isn't in Judaism but is in the other four—blindlynx 20:16, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point. Striking out my other response as I think my proposal is still preferable in that case, but ultimately ambivalent. GnocchiFan (talk) 20:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support proposal. Oppose "Jesus in Judaism" per blindlynx. Support Judaism's view of Muhammad → Jewish views on Muhammad as well. Srnec (talk) 01:51, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Jewish views on Jesus per nom. Orchastrattor (talk) 23:53, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Messianic jews

They are jewish their perspectives should be included 213.28.225.234 (talk) 15:38, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, they are no longer Jewish, according to Jewish Law. Their view has no relationship whatsoever to any Jewish view toward this person. DrKN1 (talk) 21:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

False quote was added to this article, and now removed.

This article until the present edit, contained a patently false quote from Maimonides letter to Yemen.

In the Maimonides letter, he writes the following:

"The first one to have adopted this plan was Jesus the Nazarene, may his bones be ground to dust. He was a Jew because his mother was a Jewess although his father was a Gentile."

See here the original text, Epistle to Yemen, towards the end of 3., translation available at https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Yemen/Complete,

The above text quoted from Maimonides Epistle to Yemen, thereby disqualifies him from being or becoming the Messiah. Maimonides in Laws of Kings (Mishne Torah) writes as a matter of Jewish Law, that the Messiah will come from the House of David. So this is a pivotal point.

Before the correction, the text in "Jewish views on J...", read as follows:

"Jesus the Nazarene was a Jew because his mother was a Jewess and his father was a Jew descended from the line of King David."

The falsehood is obvious, and is obviously deliberate. By falsely putting those words into the mouth of Maimonides, they attempt to pretend that Maimonides places him in the lineage of the Messiah.

The text before correction is thereby boldly counterfactual, and should be seen as a form of vandalism.

DrKN1 (talk) 21:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Status of "Christian Jews"

The last couple of sentences in the 3rd paragraph of the introduction:

"In the State of Israel, Israeli Jews who endorse the belief that Jesus is the Messiah or Christ are not considered Jews either by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel nor by the Israeli government."

I've looked at the references included with this statement and see no corroboration.

Can someone provide documentation for this? If not, shouldn't this be removed? Rantedia (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]